304, 305 (Neil) (Passed)

[Neil]

In an effort to move away from collective rule-tinkering...

The society bill:

304. At each player's proposal, that player may select a role until the next proposal. The roles have characteristics as follows (calculated in this order).
• Thief. Gains one point from each player with positive points balance.
• Craftsman. Earns three points.
• Policeman. Takes half of all thieves' takings.
• Artist. Loses 1 point per turn if there are more craftsmen than thieves, otherwise gains 5 points.

305.  Revolutions. At any stage any player may attempt a revolution by posting, "Liberté, egalité, fraternité!" In the currently active proposal thread. Votes are cast in the thread to SUPPORT the revolution, or uphold the STATUS QUO for the following 12 hours. Any non-vote is taken as abstention. If there is a 2/3 majority (rounding down) in favour of revolution then a revolution occurs for 12 hours (starting immediately after the end of the revolution vote). During a revolution, players may choose their role as many times as they like, after the 12-hour window, all roles are fixed until each player's turn, or the next revolution.
The enactment of this bill will trigger the first revolution.

[Robin_C]

Like the concept. More interaction of roles, and less voting within voting rounds. Also typo at the top: the second 'the' of your post should be 'their'

[michaelenstone]

Love the idea! 

I agree with Robin in respect of the voting. Would it not be more fitting if the way to get a revolution is by having people post the phrase "Liberté, egalité, fraternité!"? A revolution has been started once a specific number of consecutive posts have been made by different players.


Just a point of order on the numbering of the rules. I withdrew my proposal for rule 303 and it was never voted on. Should these rules not start from 303?

[Neil]

Corrected:
At each player's proposal, that player may select a role until their next proposal
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Suggest interactions and/or new roles as you see fit, I deliberately built a relatively simple mechanic to start with. It can always be amended.
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Voting within votes isn't ideal, but I like the idea that a revolution comes in out of sequence. I also can't see how to make it a revolution without popular support (and can't see a mechanism except vote). I'm fine with casting for votes with any variety of French proletariat expression. Perhaps it should have Ponzi-scheme type benefits...
If a revolution fails, the first revolutionary loses eight points, the second four and all other revolutionaries two.
If a revolution succeeds, the first revolutionary gains two points, the second and third gain one point each.

The idea being that launching a revolution is a gamble, disincetivising trivial revolutions.

[Neil]

"Comes in" = "happens"
Ref using sequencing, I don't want to introduce any mechanic that requires urgent attention / posting. It may make the game less accessible if you lose because you've got a lot to do one day. I chose two 12-hour cycles as about as 'rushed' as this game can realistically be - reflecting the suddenness of revolutions. On which mote revolutions also spread, maybe there should be an extra rule where if revolutions in the Middle East are on BBC news front page on the relevant day all revolutions require only 50% majority...

[Neil]

Currently mooted, in case I can't get back to this later:

The society bill:

304. At each player's proposal, that player may select a role until their next proposal. The roles have characteristics as follows (calculated in this order).
• Thief. Gains one point from each player with positive points balance.
• Craftsman. Earns three points.
• Policeman. Takes half of all thieves' takings.
• Artist. Loses 1 point per turn if there are more craftsmen than thieves, otherwise gains 5 points.
When a user has a role, they must edit their profile, putting their role in the location field.

305. Revolutions. At any stage any player may attempt a revolution by posting, "Liberté, egalité, fraternité!" In the currently active proposal thread. Votes are cast in that thread for the following 12 hours; to support the revolution (by also posting "Liberté, egalité, fraternité!"), or uphold the status quo (by posting "down, down, deeper and down").  Any non-vote does not count in the revolution tally (abstention is not a negative or positive vote). If there is a 2/3 majority (rounding down) in favour of revolution then a revolution occurs for 12 hours starting immediately after the end of the revolution vote (i.e. not from the first vote which secured the 2/3 majority). During a revolution, players may select their role as many times as they like (by posting their selection in the active thread).  After the 12-hour window, all roles are fixed until each player's turn, or the next revolution.
If a revolution fails, the first revolutionary loses eight points, the second loses four points and all other revolutionaries lose two points.
If a revolution succeeds, the first revolutionary gains two points, the second and third revolutionaries gain one point each.
After the revolution, successful or otherwise, the previously active proposal restarts with a 24-hour extension for the proposer.
The enactment of this bill will trigger the first revolution.

Mainly just tightened up wording, added a mechanism to prevent trivial revolutions and a note about restarting the game.  Vote is called at 2ish today unless there are more contributions so get ideas in.  On reflection, the Arab Spring reference was just a bit contrived.

[Robin_C]

would be good to have another topic, at the same level as scoring to show everyone's current role

[Neil]

I have a different idea.  What do you think?  Reflected this in the above mooted proposal.

[oafcmetty]

I like. The potential for shenanigans is high.

[Robin_C]

that's good; it means others can't diddle with it

is it just a screen name ora username change?

[Neil]

I clicked on 'Profile' and edited the box titled username.  It could be abused I suppose, maybe a sticky a la scoring is better, trying to avoid making play administratively complex.

[Robin_C]

that change might mean that you have to change your username at the login screen

[Neil]

Yeah, it did.  Bugger.  Never mind.  Maybe this (look right)  --------------------->

[Robin_C]

is it vote o'clock?

[Neil]

Yes.  The time has passed.  Votes to me via PM please.  This proposal window started 14:19 forum time (13:19 BST!) so just under 23 hours to vote.

[Robin_C]

we should pretend forum time is BST to remove that cognitive overhead...

[Neil]

Turns out it's a per-user setting, go to:
Profile
- Preferences
- Timezone
Choose any +0 option

It's now defaulted correctly for new members.

[Robin_C]

cool - don;t know why it thought i was in Rome / Lisbon...

[Robin_C]

When is voting time up? Unhelpfully, the rules relate to the interval following the posting of the last vote,  but we no longer publically pass votes

[Neil]

Votes are in:
Cooper       For
Enstone      For
Holton        For
Jones         No vote (assume for)
Metcalfe     For
Probyn        No vote (assume for)

Proposal passes.  I will score.

This post marks the beginning of the first revolution - until 2.50am!

[Neil]

Yeah, we could fix that.
We could also allow 'n' non-material rewrites alongside proposals to address that sort of thing - but that brings questions about how we define materiality.  Think we discussed that last game.

[Neil]

I am an artist

[oafcmetty]

I am an artist

That's not what your location states!

I am a craftsman.

[Neil]

It's Rich's go.  Given we haven't seen him since registration, there might be a two-day pause in the game here.

I'm a revolting craftsman who was being an artist but is now a policeman.

[domtheseal]

Reading "At each player's proposal, that player may select a role until their next proposal." 


To me, that means:
1. That only the player proposing can select a role (not all players).  
2. The next proposer can select their role only when they propose (that is, role selection will happen sequentially, based upon role turn)  


Am I correct? How do others interpret the application of this rule? 


Robin, Neil and Oafmetty have updated their role to Craftsmen...my interpretation of the rule is that none of you can...


Again, please share your thoughts!!

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